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Dreams are what you wake up from.

14 years of Livejournalling, and hopefully, more to come.

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:: Saturday Night Whimsicals - Morality ::
:: Extended into Sunday Afternoon Since I Just Couldn't Finish Writing What I Wanted To Write ::

Was talking to someone just a night ago on taking stands in life.
There're things we read about in the papers that probably induce us to take one stand or another.

:: The Problem of Evil ::

In the philosophy of religion and theology,
the problem of evil is the problem of reconciling the existence of
evil or suffering in the world with the existence of an omniscient,
omnipotent, omnibenevolent god.

The problem of evil arises from the supposition that a perfectly good god
would not have created a world containing evil,
or would not permit its continued existence in the world,
and that an omniscient and omnipotent god should be
able to arrange the world according to his intentions.
Since evil manifestly exists, it would seem that a god intends it to exist.
Therefore such a god is either not perfectly good,
not omniscient,
or not omnipotent.

With the further premise that if a god exists,
it must be perfectly good,
omniscient, and omnipotent,
one can conclude from the existence of evil that no god exists.

Epicurus is credited with first expounding this problem,
and it is sometimes called the Epicurean paradox or the riddle of Epicurus
— although the argument is not really a paradox or a riddle,
but rather a reductio ad absurdum of the premises.
Epicurus drew the conclusion that the existence of evil is
incompatible with the existence of the gods.

:: The Problem of Hell ::

The problem of Hell is a variant of the problem of evil, aimed specifically at religions which hold both that:

1. An omnipotent (all-powerful), omniscient (all-knowing), and omnibenevolent (all-loving) God exists.
2. Some people will be consigned to Hell forever, and will be eternally tortured.

Opponents of the doctrine of Hell claim that the punishment is
disproportionate to any crimes that could be committed.
Humans can commit only a finite amount of sin,
yet Hell is essentially infinite punishment,
and common sense seems to suggest that few
(if any) people deserve such punishment.

Against the alleged injustice of Hell,
some theists have maintained that God is so infinitely great
that any transgression against him warrants an infinite punishment.
On this view, the correct punishment for a crime is proportional
to the status of the wronged individual.
Opponents of this view reply that the correct punishment is
also proportional to the intentions and understanding
of the wrongdoer.

Arguing from the concept that "The wages of sin is death,"
those who accept the teachings of the Bible assert that
any amount of sin in and of itself is worthy of damnation
to Hell and all the associated punishments.
Because sin is by definition an ultimate denial of God's authority,
any sin is infinite in quality.

Another argument is that,
although no crime warrants eternal punishment,
sinful behaviour can continue in Hell,
thus warranting an "extension of the sentence"
that an individual must serve -
and such extensions can continue on
forever with each new sin.

There is a counter to this argument:
Those assigned to Hell are destined to suffer there forever.
For this to be justified,
it must be inevitable that they will continue sinning eternally
and continue to deserve further punishment.
Hell becomes a futile punishment which
cannot serve to prevent sin.
Furthermore, if the sinners in Hell cannot avoid
further sin they cannot easily be seen as
responsible for their actions once they enter Hell.

Wikipedia is fun.

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i agree. wikipedia is very very fun.

Concept of Evil

it is interesting how the concept of evil in christianity is characterised by Lucifer, who was supposed to have been an archangel, but had 'chosen' to be the adversary of mankind (satan = adversary). Interesting as in that if he made that choice, then it wasn't the fault of God for the existence of 'evil'. So is satan really evil or is he just and adversary to mankind ? If he is 'evil', then how can he remain in the presence of God ? cf Job.

Concept of Hell

How about the concept that 'Hell' is basically seperation from God, rather than a location ?

then comes the problem about people who:

1. do not believe in God but do good.


2. do believe in God but do bad.

Do both parties then go to Hell and burn eternally?

(Deleted comment)
*grinz* what do you think ?

I am of the belief that Hell is the eternal separation from God. Since I do believe that God is omnipotent and omniscient, as well as just, I do believe in the "fair trial". I do not think it for us to say who goes, and who does not, since we do not see the big picture. Who knows what God has in store on the final day?


So it appears that you're saying that to be in heaven, one must have :
1. faith in God
2. do good works,

and without either is damnation in the fires of hell.

it is interesting to note that we have this concept of faith & works leading to afterlife, which is a rather judeo-christian influence. But is hell a place where one burns eternally ? or is it a state of being ? which reverts back to the earlier concept of satan - is satan really evil and bad ?

So what about those who 'half believe' in God, and who don't do that much of evil nor that much of good ? half of them goes to heaven and half to hell ? hehehe !

it's so interesting that there are so many people in the world that chooses to believe in something when they're not even fully sure of what it amounts to.

perhaps it's the human condition.


*grinz* well i guess trying to understand what to believe is better than not trying at all....

i wrote a play during college about the afterlife, and i grudgingly allowed it to be staged.

i gave one of the characters this line:
"God is the oldest, and most favorite excuse."

many in the audience were offended (it was staged in san francisco--mostly christans), but were also very affected.

what is evil? or god? the human mind is like a train track--always in pairs. define one and the other will surface.

hmmm if i define one side as the circle, then what would the other side be?


A circle is round. What's on one side is a mere reflection of the other.

What one religion preaches as hell, another takes it as a chance to repent.

who's this?


and i think i wasn't clear enough.
was referring to runecircle's "the human mind is like a train track--always in pairs. define one and the other will surface."

if hell and heaven come in pairs,
when what pairs with a circle?

a hole? if a circle is a shape within a negative space, a hole would be space within a negative shape

i don't subscribe to any but i believe them all

oh...i'm in hell right now. sure i am!

i still prefer evil. apprently, it pays off being evil than being good. i kinda end up at the losing end being too good most of the time.

its within u


hahahha god ? hell? heaven ??

its all within u

no matter what u choose to do

be happy truly from inside out

ayako ^__^


nihonjin nano?

u r only half right :P


i am jap yes but i'm mixed...
my dad is...my mum aint :)

ayako ^__^

Re: u r only half right :P

So I can call you ayako-chan?


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